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By JaseXT
I have been asked by a few members to organise a rideout so here goes for the first attempt to see if anyone is interested.
This will be starting at the Touratech car park in Ystradgynlais approx 8:30 for 9am leave (could be flexible, if you would prefer to start a bit later we can sort that out, the route will be approx 80 miles and end up back at the start point. It will be suitable for novice riders on the smaller machines and the bit more experienced on anything over a 650. It all depends on the weather but unless you have knobbly tyres fitted you may find it quite difficult, the route will be roughly Sennybridge, Llandovery, Llangadog, Ammanford then back, there will be fuel stops and plenty of time for smoke breaks.
It is open to all TRF members, just leave a comment below to register your interest in attending
Maximum of 10 riders plus myself and tail ender
West Glos and Dean Forest Motorcycle Club will be holding their fantastic Wygate LDT on the 27th March 2011
Update:
Regs now available online:
Wyegate LDT 2011 Regs
See their website for more information or to keep up to date
West Glos and Dean Forest Motorcycle Club

News has just reached me via GLASS that Camarthenshire CC are aproposing to downgrade a BOAT near Abagorlech to footpath.
I have used this BOAT myself and although it was very challenging in places at that time i was under the impression from others on this forum that it had been repaired. Anyhow, the locals should certainly be objecting as should anyone else whos used (and yes, I include myself in that).
It’s here by the way,
http://www.bdcc.co.uk/XMarksTheSpot.htm?g=SN6049933612&t=SN6049933612
Here’s the authority spiel.
Cheers
Richard
………………………………………………………………………………………………
Dear Sir/Madam,
Pre-Order Consultation: Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) 38/1- Abergorlech to Edwinsford, Llansawel – Proposal to reclassify as a Public Footpath
Carmarthenshire County Council proposes changing the status of the above Public Right of Way from a Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) to a Public Footpath.
I attach a plan showing BOAT 38/1 (marked as 38/1/1 and 38/1/2) which runs from the B4337 north-west of Edwinsford, west via Garnwen, Llethr-Llwyd and Cwm, alongside the River Cothi to a track east of Penbontbren and out to the B4310 highway east of Abergorlech (SN 627 353 to SN 586 336). The route itself will not change only its status from a BOAT (Byway Open to all Traffic) to a Public Footpath.
The Local Authority has a duty under s53 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (‘the Act’) to keep the Definitive Map and Statement of Public Rights of Way under continuous review. The status of this route would be amended under s.53(3)(c)(ii) of the Act. This relates to ‘the discovery by the authority of evidence which shows … that a right of way shown in the map and statement of a particular description ought to be there shown as a highway of a different description’.
The reasons for the proposed change are:
1. This public right of way was originally classified as a public footpath when it was claimed by Llansawel Parish Council in their 1955 survey under the National Parks and Access to Countryside Act 1949. The survey describes the route as from ‘Talley Road to Garnwen yard over stone road through field to style [sic]; continues under wood to Llethr Lllwyd …. and on stone road to approach to Llethr Llwyd yard over grass roadway to Cwm Cottage’. Under the survey sheet heading ‘Grounds for the belief that the Way is public’ the reply is ‘Frequently used by public during summer months for walking and sightseeing expeditions’.
At that point, the route claimed was only from Garnwen to Cwm Cottage, about halfway along the current route. According to our files, by the time the Draft Definitive Map and Statement was published in 1960 the route had been extended to Abergorlech but there is no documentation to show how that happened. No objections were received. Therefore, the route was included in the first Definitive Map and Statement with the status of ‘footpath’ published in February 1973.
So the route was a Public Footpath. The reference to a ‘stile’ at Garnwen in the survey description indicates that it could not be used by horse riders or for vehicular traffic. The reference to its use ‘for walking and sightseeing expeditions’ also supports its original classification as a footpath.
2. So how did this Public Footpath become a Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT)? It was reclassified as a BOAT in the Limited Special Review of the Definitive Map and Statement (under the Countryside Act 1968) which commenced in April 1973 (not long after the first Definitive Map and Statement for the area had been published). The Limited Special Review was introduced because one of the categories of public right of way under the 1949 Act, the RUPP (Road Used as a Public Path) had proved unsatisfactory as it was unclear if RUPPs carried vehicular rights or not. Therefore, the Countryside Act 1968 required each RUPP to be reclassified as a ‘Byway Open to All Traffic’ (BOAT) (a new category of public right of way), a bridleway or a footpath. The surveying authority, Carmarthenshire County Council, considered that it was appropriate to again request the appropriate information from Parish Councils. So Llansawel Parish Council was asked to look at ‘Roads used as Public Paths’ and ‘Bridleways and footpaths which it is considered should have been shown as Roads used as Public Paths’, and consider if they should now be classified as footpaths, bridleways or Byways Open to all Traffic (BOATs). The return from Llansawel Parish Council dated 6th October 1973 reclassified Public Footpath 38/1 as a Byway Open to All Traffic.
However, there are a number of questions about the way the Limited Special Review was carried out by the County Council and whether the Parish Councils fully understood or adequately carried out their part in the process. The original legislation was complex and the letter sent by Carmarthenshire County Council to the Parish Councils at the time was legalistic and required Parish Councils to make quite fine evidence-based judgements. The Inspector who presided over two local Public Inquiries held in Carmarthenshire in 1978 in connection with the Limited Special Review, commented in his report as follows:
“It became evident to me during the course of the inquiries that there is considerable confusion in the minds of local people between what constitutes a public right of way open to all comers, on foot, on horseback or in vehicles as may be appropriate to the classification of the right of way, and what is a private right of way. The latter would seem to be a way used by an owner or tenant on his land, by a neighbour or other person having permission from the owner or tenant, or possibly more collective usage of routes within a small community for their own needs”.
He also comments that: “It has seemed to me, and the County Council had tended to confirm it, that many of these difficulties could have been resolved had there been more direct contact between the County and Community Officers. I understood that the response from some Community Councils had been insignificant.”
In addition to the general questions about the Limited Special Review process, doubt can be cast over how well the process worked in this particular case. New research has revealed Minutes of a Llansawel Parish Council meeting held on 3rd October 1973 in which they appear to have decided that 38/1 should be designated as a ‘Bridle Path’, along with some other routes, though on what basis is unclear. The matter is dealt with in 4 lines in the minutes, sandwiched between discussion of a new bus shelter and reference to a land purchase. There is no mention in those Minutes of any routes being reclassified as Byways Open to All Traffic (BOATs). Yet the letter and return from Llansawel Parish Council to the County Council dated 6th October 1973, just 3 days after the above meeting, appears to refer to 4 routes becoming Byways Open to All Traffic, 38/1 being one of them. This would appear to call into question the efficacy of the Limited Special Review process in this case.
Further, there does not appear to have been any supporting evidence submitted to the County Council by the Parish Council to support their decision. Neither does the County Council appear to have scrutinised or investigated the return provided or asked for any supporting evidence. When the draft Revised Definitive Map and Statement was published in 1974, the Forestry Commission initially objected to the proposed change in the status of 38/1 to a BOAT, along with a number of other routes but they withdrew their objection before the 1978 Public Inquiry. As there were no other objections, the BOAT status was confirmed in 1980 and shown on the revised Definitive Map and Statement published in 1983.
3. The nature of the terrain, particularly at the eastern Garnwen end of the route is steep and narrow. This supports the view that this section was never used as a vehicular route or indeed as a bridleway. Further on historic maps this section is referred to as ‘FP’ indicating that it was a footpath (though obviously this was before the legal entity of ‘public footpaths’ existed). The reference to a stile also suggests that it was not a bridleway. There are also two deep fissures in the rock earlier on the route near the river Cothi which again questions whether it could have been safely used by vehicles or horses, certainly for a considerable period of time. The above also causes practical difficulties for anyone who does attempt to use the registered route on horseback or in a vehicle as, apart from the danger, there is no way to exit at the eastern end using those modes of transport. This sometimes leads to people straying off onto private tracks on the estate and trespassing because of their inability to use the registered route.
4. We commissioned some historical research which was carried out by Trysor
(a specialist archaeology, history and heritage consultancy). Their Report
refers to a letter written by the Squire of Edwinsford in 1806 to his agent asking for a progress report on “my road towards Abergorlech”. Trysor state that: “This is clear evidence that the road [first shown on an 1831 Ordnance Survey Map] was built by Edwinsford as an access road into the heart of the estate”. The western half of the BOAT from near Cwm Cottage to Abergorlech would appear to be part of this private estate road built by the Squire of Edwinsford from the Estate to Abergorlech in the early 19th Century. I enclose a copy Map (Map 1) showing the BOAT and the Road/Track showing on the 1831 OS Map. There are 3 milestones shown on historic maps along the ‘private’ road. This route follows the BOAT from Abergorlech then branches off the registered public route near Cwm Cottage (about half the way along the length of the BOAT) onto a private track and follows the River Cothi before terminating at Edwinsford Estate. The milestones stated ‘3 Miles to Edwinsford’, ‘2 Miles to Edwinsford’ and ‘1 Mile to Edwinsford’. Two of them are along the 1st half of the BOAT (one is still in situ though it may have been moved). The third Milestone stating ‘1 Mile to Edwinsford’ is shown on the private track, a part of the route that has never been claimed as public. Whilst milestones are of course more commonly found on public roads, there are also cases where they have been installed on roads/routes serving large private estates by the landowner. That would appear to be the case here. So it seems that there was a private access route from Abergorlech to Edwinsford Estate. The reference to road and the width of parts of the route imply vehicular use but if it was as a private access road to the estate such use would have been private.
5. There is also reference in our files to a pedestrian gate out of the garden at Penbontbren (though it is unclear when it was installed) at the western (Abergorlech) end of the route which would also question whether the registered route should be a Byway.
6. The Finance Act 1910 Provisional Valuation contains no deductions in respect of Public Rights of Way.
There have been suggestions that because the route at the north-eastern Garnwen end could not have been used by vehicles or horses, the route must have in fact exited via the Edwinsford Estate instead. However, the route and description on the original 1955 survey map appear clear and no alteration or correction to the route was suggested by anybody when the Draft Map & Statement for the area was published in June 1960 (apart from the fact it had been extended to Abergorlech), or when the Provisional Map & Statement were published in April 1971 or when the Definitive Map & Statement was published in February 1973 or indeed during the Limited Special Review process commenced in April 1973 which led to a Draft Revised Map published in February 1974 and a Revised Definitive Map and Statement in June 1983. No claim has ever been received to register a route exiting via Edwinsford Estate.
The proposal to reclassify the route as a public footpath rather than a bridleway is because, at present, there does not appear to be evidence of public use by horse riders and the inability of horse riders to have used the route at the Garnwen end due to the terrain and the stile.
Any comments, representations and objections relating to the proposal should be made in writing by 31st January 2011 to me at the above address.
To be relevant, comments, representations or objections should relate to the existence or status of rights of way and be evidence-based. Such evidence may be:
User Evidence such as statements or statutory declarations prepared by
solicitors (both accompanied by plans/maps of the route) from persons who
have used the route or have personal knowledge of it over a period of time.
Documentary Evidence such as Inclosure Acts, awards and plans, Tithe
awards, apportionments and maps, Finance Act 1910 documentation, ordnance
survey maps, Estate maps, other records such as Parish Records, local history
books etc.
This is a pre-order consultation exercise and no final decision has yet been made. The purpose of the consultation is to give the opportunity for any further evidence from the community, user groups and other interested parties to be collected and considered.